Dear Refiner's Fire...


1. MANY MESSIAHS IN THE BIBLE: There are many Messiahs in the Bible. Since every King and High Priest was anointed with oil, each may be referred to as "an anointed one" (a Mashiach or a Messiah). For example: "G-d forbid that I [David] should stretch out my hand against the L-rd's Messiah [Saul]..." I Samuel 26:11. Cf. II Samuel 23:1, Isaiah 45:1, Psalms 20:6.

2. JOHN IS OR ISN'T ELIJAH: According to Biblical tradition, Elijah the prophet will reappear before the coming of the Messiah (Malachi 4:5-6). In the Greek Testament, Jesus claims that John the Baptist was Elijah (Matthew 11:13-14, 17:10-13). However, when John the Baptist was asked if he was Elijah, he denied it (John 1:21). The Gospel of Luke 1:17 tries to get around this problem by claiming that John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah. However: a] Malachi predicted that Elijah himself would return, and not just someone coming in his spirit. The prophesy about the return of Elijah says that he would restore the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers. There is no evidence that John the Baptist accomplished this.

3. MESSIAH COMES FROM A CURSED FAMILY LINE: According to the Jewish Bible, the Messiah must be a descendent of King David. (Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Ezekiel 34:23-24) Although the Greek Testament traces the genealogy of Joseph (husband of Mary) back to David, it then claims that Jesus resulted from a virgin birth, and, that Joseph was not his father. (Mat. 1:18-23) In response, it is claimed that Joseph adopted Jesus, and passed on his genealogy via adoption. There are two problems with this claim: a) there is no Biblical basis for the idea of a father passing on his tribal line by adoption. A priest who adopts a son from another tribe cannot make him a priest by adoption; b) Joseph could never pass on by adoption that which he doesn't have. Because Joseph descended from Jeconiah (Mat. 1:11) he fell under the curse of that king that none of his descendants could ever sit as king upon the throne of David. (Jeremiah 22:30; 36:30). To answer this difficult problem, apologists claim that Jesus traces himself back to King David through his mother Mary, who allegedly descends from David, as shown in the third chapter of Luke. There are four basic problems with this claim: a] There is no evidence that Mary descends from David. The third chapter of Luke traces Joseph's genealogy, not Mary's. b] Even if Mary can trace herself back to David, that doesn't help Jesus, since tribal affiliation goes only through the father, not mother. Cf. Num. 1:18; Ezra 2:59. c] Even if family line could go through the mother, Mary was not from a legitimate Messianic family. According to the Bible, the Messiah must be a descendent of David through his son Solomon (II Sam. 7:14;I Chron. 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6) The third chapter of Luke is useless because it goes through David's son Nathan, not Solomon. (Luke 3:31) d] Luke 3:27 lists Shealtiel and Zerubbabel in his genealogy. These two also appear in Matthew 1:12 as descendants of the cursed Jeconiah. If Mary descends from them, it would also disqualify her from being a Messianic progenitor.


Our Response....


1. Many Messiahs in the Bible:

RESPONSE: There is no doubt that the title "messiah" is a general term that has been given to many people in Biblical times. The term "messiah" simply means "anointed", or "one set aside for a specific task or calling by God". David, Saul and Moses would all be considered as a "messiah" in their days. Even some of the prophets could be called this as well.

But you would have to agree that Judaism over the millennia has been looking for "the messiah" not just "a messiah". Not just one who will come and change a single generation or two, but one who will come and change the direction of the entire world for all times. Rambam himself was looking for "the" messiah; in fact in his thirteen principles of faith, number twelve states "I believe with perfect faith in the coming of the Messiah. How long it takes, I will await His coming every day." Unlike Rambam, it is the opinion of the team at The Refiner's Fire that Yeshua is the messiah that our people have been looking for. He even refers to himself as this messiah in John 4: <i>25. That woman said to him, "I know that the Mashiyach is coming, and when he comes, he will teach us everything. 26. Y'shua said to her, I am the one speaking with you. 27. And while he spoke, his disciples came and were amazed that he spoke with a woman. (AENT)

2. John is or isn't Elijah:

RESPONSE: This John was not a type of reincarnation of the prophet, or an apparition of the long dead prophet Elijah. Did John believe that he himself was Elijah? No, not if we can believe what he said in the verse that you quoted. But just because he did not believe that he was fulfilling the prophecy, or that he was not the prophet come back from the dead, doesn't mean that he was correct in his assessment of himself. Instead of taking John's word for who he saw himself as, it makes more sense to believe what Messiah himself said in Matthew 11:12-15: 12. From the days of Yochanan the Immerser until now, the Kingdom has suffered violence, and the violent are robbing it. 13. For all the prophets and Torah have prophesied until Yochanan. 14. And if you desire, accept that this is Eliyahu who was to come. 15. He who has ears, let him hear. (AENT)

The new covenant simply does not give us any information concerning the changes that occurred in people's hearts surrounding the ministry of this particular John, but the Renewed Covenant says there were big changes in the hearts of many people because of what this John did. Matthew 3:1-6 1. And in those days came Yochanan the Immerser and would preach in the desert of Yehuda. 2. And said, "Repent (for) near is the Kingdom of Heaven. 3. It is him for whom it was spoken through Yesha'yahu the prophet, "A voice of one crying in the desert 'Prepare the way of Master YHWH and make straight his path.'" 4. Now Yochanan's clothes were from the hair of camels, and upon his loins a girdle of skins. And his food was locusts and wild honey. 5. Then was gone out to him Urishlim and all Yehuda and all lands that surround the Yordanan. 6. And they would be immersed by him in the Yordanan River when they would confess in their sins. (AENT)

Jerusalem and all Judea confessed their sins? This seems to have been a large impact on the people of that day as John was preparing their hearts for the presentation of Messiah!

3. Messiah Comes from a curse family line:

RESPONSE: The following explanation was courtesy of Andrew Gabriel Roth:

The curse on Jeconiah in relation to the genealogy of Yeshua - who was a descendent of King David!

Even the majority of Orthodox avoid this argument and agree Jeconiah (by all three names) had his curse lifted. In fact, Jeremiah who invoked the curse lifted it in his 52nd chapter. Every single aspect was turned back. The curse said he would not prosper and Jeconiah was released from prison and given money. It said he would be childless and he had many kids in captivity. Most importantly, it said none of his descendants would ever rule in any capacity - and we challenge someone to explain that within two or three generations, his direct descendant Zerubababel is the governor of Judea!

Jeconiah's Curse

The final general problem that critics love to pounce on has to do with one of Y'shua's ancestors, the last king of Judah:

"'As surely as I live', declares the LORD, 'even if you Jeconiah, son of Jehoiakim king of Judah were a signet ring on my right hand, I would still pull you off. I will hand you over to those who seek your life, those you fear, to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon and to the Babylonians. I will hurl you and the mother who gave birth to you into another country, where neither of you was born, and there you both will die. You will never come back to the land you long to return to. ' Is this man Jeconiah a despised, broken pot, and object no one wants? Why will he and his children be hurled out, cast into a land they do no know? O land, land, land, hear the word of the LORD! This is what the LORD says: 'Record this man as if childless, a man who will not prosper in his lifetime, for none of his offspring shall prosper, none will sit on the throne of David, or ever rule anymore in Judah." (Jeremiah 22:24-30)

So, in theory at least, anyone who is descended from Jeconiah cannot sit on David's throne, which of course is a problem when we get to here:

"You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name of Y'shua. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High. The LORD YAH will give him the throne of his father David." (Luke 1:31-32 (NIV with cross-reference to the Younan Peshitta Interlinear Version))

Many Greek textual defenders have tried to suggest that Matthew's lineage is of Messiah's father Joseph, and therefore does not carry the curse. However, while the Talmud says that Jews are counted as such ethnically if their mothers are Jewish, royal inheritances were always passed down from father to son, and this is definitely a royal genealogy that Matthew is trying to relate here. Therefore, Messiah must be descended from David on both sides of his family tree, and this curse would hold either way if it were not for one fact: It was lifted!

If the rabbis of the Talmud have any weight in the matter, they ruled unanimously that Jeconiah was forgiven for his many transgressions by the end of his life. The reason for this belief arose from Scripture itself, as each component of this curse was turned back. Let's look at these facts which prove the case.

  • The curse says, "record this man as if childless", and yet in the same section admits that Jeconiah has children, and in fact continues to do so during his punishment.

  • The curse says that Jeconiah would never prosper, but even Jeremiah, who wrote the words of that original admonition, reports the following: "In the thirty-seventh year of the exile of Jeconiah, king of Judah, in the year Evil-Merodach became king of Babylon, he released Jeconiah from king of Judah and freed him from prison on the twenty-fifth day of the twelfth month. He spoke kindly to him and gave him a great seat of honor higher than those of other kings who were with him in Babylon. So Jeconiah put aside his prison clothes and for the rest of his life ate regularly at the king's table. Day by day the king gave Jeconiah a regular allowance as long as he lived, till the day of his death." (Jeremiah 52:31-34)

  • The curse even goes so far as to proclaim that "for none of his offspring shall prosper, none will sit on the throne of David, or ever rule anymore in Judah." Granted, the days of the kings of Judah were gone for two generations. However, notice the verse even covers any kind of ruler in Judah? If the curse were still enforced, how does anyone explain this passage?

    "The word of the LORD came to Haggai a second time on the twenty-fourth day of the month. 'Tell Zerubabel the governor of Judah that I will shake the heavens and the earth. I will overturn royal thrones and shatter the power of foreign kingdoms. I will overthrow chariots and their drivers; horses and their riders will fall, each by the sword of his brother. On that day,' declared the LORD Almighty, 'I will take you, my servant, Zerubabel son of Shealtiel', declares the LORD, 'and I will make you like my signet ring, for I have chosen you,' declares the LORD Almighty." (Haggai 2:20-23)

Zerubabel, as it turns out, is the grandson of Jeconiah (1 Chronicles 3:17-19, Matthew 1:12) - so, not bad for a guy who was neither supposed to prosper nor rule! Also the imagery Haggai uses could not be stronger, for just as Jeremiah said that Jeconiah was the signet ring the LORD would remove, so now this same man's grandson is the signet ring God wishes to put on!

In the Middle East, a king's signet ring bore the royal seal. The king, when he wished to authenticate a command, would take his ring and impress the insignia into clay, which would later harden and be attached to the royal document. Therefore, in both cases, the signet ring is a very visible sign of regal power, very much akin to a scepter or crown. When the ring is removed, the power goes, and vice versa when in it is put back on.