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Elroy.Net is another one of those websites that tries to make atheism sound like the answer to a sinner's problems. Elroy espouses that, if you can't quit sinning, then simply quit believing in God, and VOILA! all your problems are solved. One of the articles on Elroy's site is called, "How to Fight the Religious Right: A guide to defending yourself against Fundamentalist Christians". The Refiner's Fire has taken on the task of challenging some of his myriad misguided assertions:
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Dear Elroy:
Concerning your Fundamentalist Christians article - Have you even READ the Bible - IN CONTEXT??? Many of the things you say are absolutely NOT true! The Bible warns us about "false prophets" in the end times. You are definitely one of them!...
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How To Defend Yourself Against Fundamentalists
And begin breaking down their made-truths in the process.
Fundamentalist Christians use the Bible as their sole authority. Anything else is suspect at best - satanic at worst. If you wish to mount a good defense, you must use their own "authoritative" book against them. You might think such a defense would be impossible, but it's not. Remember, Fundamentalists use a made-truth, one of their own creation, and despite their claims to the contrary, the Bible often contradicts their point of view. It happens because most Fundamentalists don't actually read it for themselves. The Bible, therefore, becomes the perfect weapon to use against them
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Would you suggest we ignore God and start believing the word of MAN - man, who screwed up this entire world in one way or another? Some fundamentalists might be guilty of "making up truths", but trust me: The Bible IS God's authoritative word - whether YOU choose to believe it, or not....
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"YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT"
Another cop out. When people challenge Fundamentalist interpretations of the Bible, their first counter-attack is this claim. Be prepared to hear it. The moment you defend yourself against their beliefs, Fundamentalists will claim you can't understand the Bible correctly unless God, through the Holy Spirit, directs your understanding. Basically they are claiming that God has revealed his truths to them but not to you. They are claiming that God has given them a better understanding of the Bible than you.
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No, it's NOT a "cop-out" - It IS the absolute truth! The Bible specifically tells us that the man who walks in the dark does not know where he is going (John 12:35). This means, those who don't have the Holy Spirit and are adhering to "the world", cannot possibly know what they're doing to God, to themselves, to others - and they don't realize that, without belief on the shed blood of Christ, they are utterly doomed to hell. People without the Holy Spirit cannot possibly understand the things of God (1 Cor 2:14 - If GOD said it, who are YOU to deny it????). This much is OBVIOUS by the garbage that YOU espouse! If you truly understood the Bible, you wouldn't be sitting there trying to prove your skewed viewpoint to the world....
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"CATHOLICS ARE PAGANS - THEY PRAY TO MARY"
Actually they don't. They ask Mary, who is considered to be a very godly woman - even though she is in spirit and no longer walking the earth, to pray on their behalf. Fundamentalists think this is praying to spirits other than God, and therefore condemn it. Catholics, however, see it as calling on a woman of God to pray for them, just as Fundamentalists will ask their pastor to pray for them. The difference is that Catholics see the veil between the living and the dead as much thinner than Protestants do. In other words, a Godly woman who has died is still living in the afterlife, is still active in the life of the church, is still a part of the body of believers, and can, therefore, be called on to submit prayers on behalf of those of us struggling in this world. Fundamentalists call this unbiblical. However, in Matthew 17:3 we read where Moses and Elijah, two Old Testament prophets who had long since died, appeared and communed with Jesus and several of the apostles. Seems the dead can be active in the physical world of those who come after them.
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You're right: Catholics are totally off the mark and unbiblical (see Challenging Roman Catholicism, for starters). Like YOU, they have taken the Word of God and skewed it to serve their own agendas. "Fundamentalists" might ask their pastor to pray for them, but they also know they have personal access to God anytime they want - so please don't try to twist things....
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"THE END IS NEAR - CHRIST IS COMING BACK SOON"
This is meant to frighten you. It's a scare tactic designed to push you into a choice you don't want to make. Don't let it. The Bible does not say when the end of the world will be. But that doesn't stop the Fundamentalists from making a guess and then claiming it as truth. When Jerusalem was destroyed in 73 AD, Fundamentalists said it was the end of the world. When the clock struck midnight in the year 1000 AD they said it was the end of the world. When World War I broke out they said it was the end of the world. When World War II broke out they said it again. Now, coming up on the next Millenium they are saying it even louder. But it won't happen. In fact, the first prophecy of the earth's demise was proven false within a hundred years of its utterance. In Luke 21:25-32 Christ tells his followers about the end of the world and his pending return from heaven and then tells them that their generation would not pass away before these things happened. That was 2002 years ago.
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That "the end is near" is a fact. No guessing involved. Read the Bible, specifically the Books of Daniel and Revelation. Also read End Time Questions and Signs of Christ's Return. If you still choose not to believe, that's your prerogative. However, you have NO RIGHT to push YOUR uneducated, skewed views on others! You have no idea how many people you are leading astray....
The past "fundamentalists" who tried to tell us the end of the world had come, like you, had not read their Bibles, either. If they had, they would have known that several things HAD to happen before "the end" came - For instance, Israel had to become a nation once more - which happened in 1948, and in just ONE DAY, just as the Bible predicted. "The end" could NOT have happened before then because God is very methodical.
Before the "end" can actually happen, there are several more prophecies to be fulfilled. Read Recent Prophecies, Today's Prophecies, and Ten End Time Prophecies. Perhaps these will open your blind eyes!
Ezekiel 36:8-10 says Israel would be restored as a nation and repopulated with its people: "'But you, O mountains of Israel, will produce branches and fruit for my people Israel, for they will soon come home. I am concerned for you and will look on you with favor; you will be plowed and sown, and I will multiply the number of people upon you, even the whole house of Israel. The towns will be inhabited and the ruins rebuilt.
The prophet Ezekiel said that the Jews would return, rebuild and repopulate their fallen cities. In 1948, there were about 600,000 Jews living in Israel. Today there are around 7 million! Before the Jews regained the Land from the so-called "Palestinians", the Land was in ruins [God said that, until the Jews were back in the Land, it would be a dry and barren desert]. Also, several other things have to happen before "the end as we know it" arrives - many of which are already here - such as the Bible-prophesied diseases caused by "beasts of the field" [AIDS, Mad Cow, Foot and Mouth, etc]. The Bible warns that in the end times we will have natural disasters of Biblical proportions. Just in the last ten years (WITH modern seismology equipment, etc) we've already seen more earthquakes, fires, droughts, tornadoes, etc. than in any other era - and they're ever worsening.
Furthermore, 9/11 proves that God has removed His Mighty Hand from our ever-growing decadent and sin "tolerant" nation. Most of the "end time" scenario, however, hinges on Israel and the Middle East situation. God said that the whole world will go up against Israel (which is in process right now, with anti-semitism on the rise again) when the Antichrist eventually arrives to make his faux peace. Keep your eye on the European Union and the Israel situation, Elroy. Anyone who is against Israel will suffer God's wrath! Keep your eyes also on the Muslims, are they are in the process of taking over the world. See what my website's Letters and Opinions page says about Muslims/Islam and get your eyes opened to a few facts!
Read the Books of Daniel and Revelation and compare them to what's happening in the world today...I DARE you!
HUNDREDS of Bible prophecies have come true, and will continue to come true. Jesus Himself, fulfilled most of the prophecies, and He's got a few to go yet....
While we're at it, let's discuss THE ODDS of so many prophecies being filled by ONE Person:
By investigating the Messianic prophecies in the Old Testament, we find that hundreds of prophecies were all fulfilled in the life of one individual — Yeshua of Nazareth. Speaking of eight key prophecies, Peter Stoner, a mathematician, points out, "We find that the chance that any man might have lived down to the present time and fulfilled eight of the prophecies is one in 100,000,000,000,000,000" (Science Speaks, Moody Press). And the probability of any one man fulfilling all of these hundreds of prophecies is a number too large to write down. He also discussed the probabilities of Yeshua fulfilling 48 prophecies being fulfilled in one person is the incredible number 10^157!
Challenge THAT with your limited, human mindset, Elroy!
The point is, no matter HOW MUCH you try to downplay God and the Bible, things ARE happening beyond your control! That's because GOD is in control, not you, my friend! The fact is, the world is turning out EXACTLY as the Bible predicted right down to end time diseases caused by "beasts of the field"....So, yeah - according to the few Bible prophecies yet to be fulfilled - "the end of the world" is VERY near!!!!
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"WHAT WOULD JESUS DO? (W.W.J.D.?)
The latest Fundamentalist gimmick is to parade around with bracelets bearing the letters "W.W.J.D.?" It's designed to remind Fundamentalist youth not to misbehave. It's also a way for these same youth to "share their faith" when someone asks what it means. It stands for "What Would Jesus Do?"
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And what, pray tell, is wrong with something that reminds our youth to be good and decent? God only knows, today's youth - for the most past - are worse than ever. They have no respect for authority; they don't mind their parents; they talk back, they've been totally "dumbed down" because being and acting stupid is "in" - an evil that is being perpetuated via Hollywood - and many can't even read in an age where there is absolutely NO excuse for it! (Not to mention that some of the little slackers have actually taken their teachers to court because the teachers tried to TEACH them things they "didn't like"!) Things are unfolding just like the Bible prophesied (Matthew 10:21, Mark 13:12)....
What would Jesus do? He'd make sure they ALL got a proper education, even if it meant thumping them on the head in order to get their attention! There would be no excuses in His classroom, no horsing around, no Prozac, no marijuana, no back-talk, no nothing. Remember what He did to people in the Temple who defiled God's Word and "did their own thing" on the Sabbath, on Temple grounds? He didn't put on His "kid gloves" and forgive on that day, did He?
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Indeed, what would Jesus do? Would he support Fundamentalist extremism or would he spread love and forgiveness?
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Indeed, this shows that how much you DON'T know about God or the Bible! Jesus most certainly WOULD support the commands of the Bible! He would NOT sit back and tolerate what the world has become. He would NOT be tolerant of children talking back and being disobedient (as a matter of fact, God, in the Old Testament times, commanded kids to be killed if they were disobedient! Just because Jesus died on the cross so that we might be forgiven our sins does NOT automatically mean we can ignore His original teachings to be good and decent citizens! Yes, He taught love and forgiveness, but He NEVER negated Torah (God's original teaching and instruction), or said it would be all right to do whatever we wanted now....
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Would he dump on homosexuals, or would he fight for their rights as human beings?
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Read the Bible and count the many ways God tells us that He HATES homosexuality! If He hates and/or despises the act, what makes you think Jesus would defend "your right" to do it now? Did Jesus ever say it was okay to perform perverse and unnatural acts? Why do you think we have so many STD's - even some that will downright KILL you - these days??? God never once said we have "rights as human beings" to disobey His commands!
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Would he picket abortion clinics, or would he comfort a woman in need of such a procedure?
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The Sixth Commandment tells us not to kill/murder. You can bet your bottom dollar, Jesus wouldn't be sitting next to a woman holding her hand while she's killing an innocent unborn! We are ALL His creation, and He NEVER gave us the right to kill innocent babies. As a matter of fact, please be assured that Jesus DOES care about the unborn:
In Exodus 21:22 God gives a specific law regarding social order. He stated that if two men were fighting and hit a pregnant woman, thus causing her to give birth prematurely, they must be fined according to any damage done to the baby. The fine must be paid in relation to the amount of damage inflicted upon the child. If God would make a law specifically referring to the rights of the unborn, then surely the unborn must mean something to Him!
God created humans for His glory (Genesis 1:26-31).
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Would he be complaining about alcohol or would he be drinking it with his friends? You be the judge. In John 8:4 Jesus was brought a woman caught in adultery. Rather than condemn her, he forgave her and said the only people allowed to condemn her were the ones who had never sinned. No one condemned her that day. In John 4:7 Jesus encounters a prostitute at a watering well. Rather than judge her harshly for her sins, he asked her for a cup of water and gave her comfort for the mistakes in her life. And in Matthew 11:19 Jesus was called a drunkard for drinking wine in the homes of local crooks and thieves.
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The Bible tells us drinking to a CERTAIN EXTENT is allowed, but nowhere in the Bible is being DRUNK condoned! You're inferring that Jesus would sit around with you gulping beer and telling dirty jokes. Think again!
Yes, He forgave the woman who committed adultery, but you forgot to mention one tiny detail: He told her go and SIN NO MORE! Once you've been forgiven and told to stop sinning, contrary to popular belief, you are NOT continuously forgiven for the same willful sin. Jesus died ONCE - to allow us to be forgiven of PAST sins, not continuous, deliberate sinning. If you think otherwise, then you are definitely destined for destruction....
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Jesus was not the uptight, judgmental founder of Fundamentalist Christianity. He was radical. He was compassionate. And he was forgiving. Rather than thumping people over the head with the Old Testament (the New Testament hadn't been written yet), he spent much of his time standing up to the Fundamentalists of his day. In Matthew 23:27 he said they were nothing more than "whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness." And isn't that so true. These are people who claim their made-truths come straight from the Bible, and yet they don't even know what's in it. They wear a facade of righteousness, and yet they sin by adding their unfounded doctrines to the Bible. They like to condemn others for living in sin, and yet they are blind to all the sins they simply ignore or write off as irrelevant.
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Well, you've certainly put Jesus in a box to suit your needs, haven't you? And you certainly can make UNFOUNDED and UNPROVEN allegations about believers! What makes you any better than those you are alleging wear "facades of righteousness? How do you know "they don't even know what's in" the Bible? Have you done a scientific poll to confirm your allegations?
Jesus didn't "found" Christianity or any other "religion"; He was God's New Covenant in the flesh - a JEW who preached the continuation of Judaism without all the "rabbinical stuff" that man had added. He came as God Incarnate to teach us the things of God and how to live with each other according to God's "Old Testament" laws, and then to act as the final SIN SACRIFICE which would afford all of us eternal life. That did NOT give us the right to do as we please! There are certain responsibilities that go along with "being saved" - and one of them is to CEASE DELIBERATE SINNING!
Jesus was "radical" only in that He challenged the Pharisees (who weren't "fundamentalists" as you referred to them), but rather they were the Jewish priests of the day) who had twisted God's word (much like YOU are doing). He came to set the record straight so that people would be put on the right path for God once more - teaching straight out of the Old Testament! He came to ESTABLISH God's original teachings and to take away the blind, human garbage that had clouded everyone's vision.
The Elroy.Net website contains dozens of articles, each fraught with the webmaster's personal opinions about God and the Bible - each completely skewing the Word of God. The above is but a sampling....
A network of Hebraic Faith rabbis @ The Refiner's Fire
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