Tweet Follow @TheRefinersFire

Talmudic Evidence for Messiah at 30 C.E.?

There is a very interesting article about supposed Talmudic Evidence for the Messiah at 30 C.E. We would encourage everyone to read it, but with "open eyes"....It says, in part:

In the centuries following the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem (70 CE), the Jewish people began writing two versions of Jewish thought, religious history and commentary. One was written in Palestine and became known as the Jerusalem Talmud. The other was written in Babylon and was known as the Babylonian Talmud.

We read in the Jerusalem Talmud:

"Forty years before the destruction of the Temple, the western light went out, the crimson thread remained crimson, and the lot for the Lord always came up in the left hand. They would close the gates of the Temple by night and get up in the morning and find them wide open" (Jacob Neusner, The Yerushalmi, p.156-157). [the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE]

A similar passage in the Babylonian Talmud states:

"Our rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot ['For the Lord'] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-colored strap become white; nor did the western most light shine; and the doors of the Hekel [Temple] would open by themselves" (Soncino version, Yoma 39b).

What are these passages talking about? Since both Talmuds recount the same information, this indicates the knowledge of these events was accepted by the widespread Jewish community.

We must remember that, just because these quotes are Talmudic doesn't mean their info is accurate. While Jewish legends are interesting, we need to employ a healthy amount of skepticism about them. For instance, I believe that, in the above article, the legend about the glory leaving the Temple 40 years in advance of its destruction is true, but the rest are suspect. For example, traditional Talmud says that the first Temple was destroyed in 432 BCE - even many Orthodox admit that is wrong; we know for a fact it was 155 years earlier. Likewise, there is a saying in the Talmud that attempts to link all aspects of both Temple destructions together, and they get a bit over-zealous saying that the same course (the first one) served during both disasters - which isn't true either.

Of course, in many other areas the rabbis of the Talmud are very accurate, so it is a mixed bag. I am surprised, for example, that this article didn't delve into the real Talmudic references to Y'shua (called "Yeshu" which is a huge insult!) that discuss His being hung on a tree on Passover eve and others believing in his resurrection when the disciples actually stole the body.

In the Toledoth Yeshu, a 6th century source, Y'shua is admitted to having performed miracles, but the rabbis say he acquired it by stealing YHWH's name off the foundation stone. They then make Judas the hero who brings Y'shua down. This, in a perverse way, actually confirms a lot of the Gospel record! The Talmud even mentions five disciples of Y'shua who should be killed. Four of those names don't match up directly but one, Matthew, does.

Finally, even Rabbi Gamaliel, the teacher of the apostle Paul, is recorded in the Talmud as having written a parody of Matthew's Gospel. Gamaliel died in the year 73, so this puts Matthew's original very early and in a language that rabbi could read - Aramaic! Mas shabbath 116ta, second century, talks about "Hebrew" Gospels from the Nazarenes with the name of YHWH in them. These are the areas this guy needs to focus on as they are genuine and not legendary.

So, please do read the entire article, but just remember to view legends for what they are.

Andrew Gabriel Roth