Reader Questions/Comments

Many people attempt to hammer The Refiner's Fire with an endless barrage of questions designed to confound and irritate and get us to admit that the Netzarim/Messianic faith is a hoax. The following serves as a perfect example (posted exactly as we received it):

Comment from a Jewish person:

Isaiah is speaking of Israel not jesus not the messiah, why is this so important to show jewish people we need jesus? All through isaiah it speaks of Israel, dosen't it? We need to follow what haShem has told us to do nothing more than that, isn't that adding to the torah?

Please show me in the tanakh that the Messiah would die for our sins, from my heart and soul please don't share with jewish people they're lost unless they don't even follow Torah, but to say they our when they believe in their hearts to love hashem but not jesus, is not what the Torah says? I'm just very concerned that christians are leading us down another road....

All through Isaiah it speaks of Israel as the servant, right? The big question is, did yeshua do all that is required to do? We Jews say no, the scripture that you used are misquoted or changed or half quoted. In Isaiah chapter 11 the messiah is here; did he do that? The second time where in Tanakh this is mentioned, it does say a lot and to keep his commandments.

It also says in Ecclesiastes 12:13 the sum of it all to fear the L-rd and keep his commandments, no blood sacrifice, and the other thing if yeshua is our final sin sacrifice was is animal sacrifice coming back? But right now just like Hosea 6'6 - for I desire goodness not sacrifice, over and over he does tell them to repent, that is why when the messiah does it will be the final redemption. David we all know the story, he repented but we know too G-d already forgave him, we too have that same option don't we?

Zechariah 8:23, why are they gone to grab the cloaks of the jews if we are wrong? We are to be the light to the nations; people know way before Yeshua came that the Jewish people had something going for them. If there is a small remnant of true torah observant jews - and you have someone to say you're lost. I say be real careful what you say! when I read the story of Moses and Korah, the christian are not content to blessed; they want to run the show.

First, the virgin birth is not hebrew word for virgin, the study on Daniel 9:24, it is now the Messiah if he is to be cut off that is not a good thing look at all the times the word cut is used its not good. Please show me if it was important to show two times for the messiah, G-d would of showed it. You know as well as I do Isaiah is not read because it has nohting to do with the torah reading. Do we want the Messiah yes, is he a demi god no way, is he a man yes normal parents.

Yeshua if he was from G-d his father is not from the line of Judah nor was he anointed to be king, i know the second time. Tell me how you see Isaiah 11, he did not for fall any of that, that is a must, the kingdom that I hear will be his bride. My question what about G-d bride Israel, they get replaced any way you look at it. The nations that are spoken about say nothing about christians, are they welcome in world to come, if they follow Hashem there, no blood. Are you Jewish? If you are you know the Hebrew the words not all of them but a lot that said, like my son whom i brought out of Eygpt.

This is not Yeshua if you read the first part of it is it speaking of Israel, it say it, right? My one question G-d can redeem us by him alone, show one time that in the new testement Thus saith the L-r, when it speaks of the G-d of Israel, is it saying Yeshua? Because he has said many times its not me its only G-d. So I ask you The Messiah has to come through the tribe of Judah, through David and through Solomon right? Mary has nothing to do with it right?

If Yeshua father does he meet all of it? Again no he does not. You ask us as Jews to put our faith in Yeshua, we say we have in G-d, he says he is alone please show where alone can mean two or three. does it not say over and over do not follow the gods of the nations, and why is this the same story line of many pagan god story's, please help me out. what does it mean in those days the nations will grab the cloak of jewish men if we're wrong we should be coming after you. Right?

Our Response...

You've got some very valid points that deserve some real answers! We're posting them here so that other traditional Jews can get their questions answered as well. The thing is, IF you had read some of the articles on The Refiner's Fire in the first place, you would have already found all the answers...

Okay, first things first: You've written to a Netzarim site, not a Christian one. Our Messiah's Name was Y'shua, not "Jesus." Jesus is a Torahless entity hanging dead as a doornail on crosses in churches around the world. The REAL Messiah, Y'shua (or "Yeshua"; however one chooses to spell the trasliteration) came to proclaim the Kingdom of YHWH and to show YHWH's people who YHWH is, how to worship Him and how to obey Torah.

Why is it so important to show Jewish people Yeshua? Because YHWH promised a Messiah who would do all kinds of things, and Yeshua said NO ONE gets to the Father except through Him (John 14:6)! Yeshua was our Final SIN Offering, as outlined in the Gospels and foreshadowed in Isaiah 53 which IS about Him! (Really now, can Israel DIE for Israel?)

If you're truly interested in the Truth, please read the following:

You're absolutely right: We are to follow haShem! But haShem had "a rest of the story" - which is outlined in the Gospels, which are a continuation of the whole story. It isn't "adding to" the Word; it's showing the results of YHWH's promises in the Torah!

(Christians and Catholics have absolutely distorted the picture. They've pushed YHWH into the background and made "Jesus" God. Really now...can GOD be born or die? No! There's a whole lot more to Yeshua than what Christians realize.)

YOU SAID: The big question is, did yeshua do all that is required to do? We Jews say no, the scripture that you used are misquoted or changed or half quoted. In Isaiah chapter 11 the messiah is here; did he do that? The second time where in Tanakh this is mentioned, it does say a lot and to keep his commandments.

THE NETZARIM RESPONSE: The answer is: Not yet. YHWH's timeframe is different from ours. He never said Messiah would "do all" while He was on the earth the first time. Please check out our article which contains the answer to your questions, and more!

Yeshua has accomplished nearly all of the things that the messiah was supposed to accomplish (which the Jews are still waiting for) and will CONTINUE to accomplish in GOD'S timing. Did Rabbi Schneerson, the man many Jews believe to be Messiah, accomplish all the above things? Has he accomplished HALF of those things? A third? No! He's still snoozing in his coffin, which means he hasn't even been raised from the dead yet! So, what are you going to do with the many prophecies that YESHUA ALREADY FULFILLED? Where do they fit in?

YOU SAID: It also says in Ecclesiastes 12:13 the sum of it all to fear the L-rd and keep his commandments, no blood sacrifice, and the other thing if yeshua is our final sin sacrifice why is animal sacrifice coming back?

THE NETZARIM RESPONSE: No blood sacrifices? Hmmm. Let's check this out in context:

Ecclesiastes 12: 11 The sayings of the wise are as sharp as goads, and those given by leaders of assemblies are like well-fixed nails; [in this case,] they are presented by a single shepherd. 12 In addition, my son, take heed: one can write many books - there's no end to it; and one can study so much that it wearies the flesh. 13 Here is the final conclusion, now that you have heard everything: fear God, and keep his mitzvot; this is what being human is all about.

Yes, as humans we ARE to fear God and keep His mitzvot. But WHERE and HOW does this scripture suggest that we no longer require SIN sacrifices? The entire Torah is about who YHWH is and how to worship Him by keeping His Mitzvot - which include over and over again the need for SIN sacrifices! By suggesting that the above has somehow abolished the need for sin sacrifices, you are doing exactly what you are accusing Christians of: You are picking and choosing and MISQUOTING!

YOU SAID: But right now just like Hosea 6'6 - for I desire goodness not sacrifice, over and over he does tell them to repent, that is why when the messiah does it will be the final redemption.

THE NETZARIM RESPONSE: Again, you have taken yet another scripture out of context:

Hosea 6: 1 Come, let us return to ADONAI; for he has torn, and he will heal us; he has struck, and he will bind our wounds. 2 After two days, he will revive us; on the third day, he will raise us up; and we will live in his presence. 3 Let us know, let us strive to know ADONAI. That he will come is as certain as morning; he will come to us like the rain, like the spring rains that water the earth. 4 "Efrayim, what should I do to you? Y'hudah, what should I do to you? For your 'faithful love' is like a morning cloud, like dew that disappears quickly. 5 This is why I have cut them to pieces by the prophets, slaughtered them with the words from my mouth - the judgment on you shines out like light. 6 For what I desire is mercy, not sacrifices, knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. 7 "But they, just like men, have broken the covenant, they have been faithless in dealing with me. 8 Gil'ad is a city of criminals, covered with bloody footprints; 9 just as bands of robbers wait to ambush someone, so does a gang of cohanim. They commit murder on the road to Sh'khem! Their conduct is an outrage! 10 In the house of Isra'el I have seen a horrible thing; whoring is found there in Efrayim, Isra'el is defiled. 11 For you, too, Y'hudah, a harvest will come! "When I restore the fortunes of my people,

The deeper answer is basically that the sacrifices return as a REMEMBRANCE because per Hebrews, Yeshua is now our high priest with atonements "better than these". That is why Yeshua said, "someone greater the Solomon is here" because Solomon built the Temple in the first place. The idea of the remembrance is no real stretch because if Yeshua is our atonement, the atonement can't be in the sacrifices of beasts and the reality is, IT NEVER WAS! (Micah 6, Hosea 6:6, Isaiah 1)...It seems that YHWH demanded blood sacrifices because the life force is in the blood ( Lev. 17:10-14; Deut. 12:23-28). It was an act of obedience we were to comply with to make us realize how very bad SINNING is....

Finally, the sacrifice of Messiah on the execution stake has UNIQUE RULES that have no precedent prior, nor will ever be repeated again. This is not just in Hebrews 9, by the way. It is also in Zechariah 12:10 where Messiah houses YHWH's spirit (YHWH is speaking and is metaphorically "pierced" but they MOURN FOR HIM AS AN ONLY [YACHID] BEGOTTEN SON.) The word YACHID is an exclusive singularity, as in never before and never again. Therefore, while some aspects of Yeshua's time on the stake RESEMBLE sacrifices of animals and such, THERE ARE PARTS OF IT THAT ONLY RELATE TO HIM EXCLUSIVELY. One of these is the eternal atoning power of believing in that sacrifice, but there are others.

YOU SAID: David we all know the story, he repented but we know too G-d already forgave him, we too have that same option don't we?

THE NETZARIM RESPONSE: Please read the following in context so you can see for yourself that, while YHWH was moved to compassion, David STILL had to offer sacrifices! The thing is, sacrifices must be offered with a willing and repentant heart, or else they mean absolutely NOTHING.

1 Chronicles 21: 1 The Adversary [Hebrew: Satan] now rose up against Isra'el and incited David to take a census of Isra'el. 2 David said to Yo'av and the leaders of the people, "Go, take a census of Isra'el from Be'er-Sheva to Dan; then report to me, so that I can know how many of them there are." 3 Yo'av said, "May ADONAI make his people a hundred times as many as they are now! But, my lord the king, aren't they all my lord's servants in any case? Why does my lord the king require this? Why should he bring guilt upon Isra'el?" 4 Nevertheless, the king's word prevailed against Yo'av. So Yo'av left and went through all Isra'el, after which he came to Yerushalayim. 5 Yo'av reported the results of the census to David: in Isra'el were 1,100,000 men who could handle a sword, while Y'hudah had 470,000 men who could handle a sword. 6 But he didn't count Levi and Binyamin among them, because the king's order was hateful to Yo'av. 7 God was displeased with this and therefore punished Isra'el.

8 David said to God, "I have greatly sinned by doing this. But now, please! Put aside your servant's sin, for I have done a very foolish thing." 9 ADONAI spoke to Gad, David's seer: 10 "Go and tell David that ADONAI says, 'I am offering you a choice of three punishments: choose one of them, and I will execute it against you.'" 11 Gad came to David and said to him, "Take your choice: 12 three years of famine; or three months of being swept away by your enemies, while your enemies' sword overwhelms you; or three days of ADONAI's sword - plague in the land, with the angel of ADONAI destroying everywhere in Isra'el's territory. Now think about what answer I should give to the one who sent me." 13 David said to Gad, "This is very hard for me. Let me fall into the hand of ADONAI, because his mercies are very great, rather than have me fall into the hand of man."

14 So ADONAI sent a plague on Isra'el; 70,000 of the people of Isra'el died. 15 God also sent an angel to destroy Yerushalayim, but when he was about to carry out the destruction, ADONAI saw it and changed his mind about causing such distress; so he said to the destroying angel, "Enough! Now withdraw your hand."The angel of ADONAI was standing at the threshing-floor of Ornan the Y'vusi. 16 David raised his eyes and saw the angel of ADONAI standing between the earth and the sky, and in his hand was a drawn sword stretched out over Yerushalayim. Then David and the leaders, wearing sackcloth, fell on their faces. 17 David said to God, "Wasn't it I who ordered the census of the people? Yes, I am the one who has sinned and done something very wicked. But these sheep, what have they done? Please! Let your hand be against me and my father's family, but not against your people, striking them with this plague!"

18 Then the angel of ADONAI ordered Gad to tell David to go and set up an altar to ADONAI on the threshing-floor of Ornan the Y'vusi. 19 David went up at Gad's word, spoken in ADONAI's name. 20 Ornan turned back and saw the angel, and his four sons who were with him hid themselves. As Ornan was threshing wheat, 21 David approached Ornan. When Ornan looked and saw David, he went out from the threshing-floor and prostrated himself before David with his face to the ground. 22 Then David said to Ornan, "Let me have the parcel with this threshing-floor, so that I can build on it an altar to ADONAI - I will pay you its full value - so that the plague will be lifted from the people." 23 Ornan said to David, "Take it for yourself, and let my lord the king do what seems good to him. I'm giving you the oxen for the burnt offerings, the threshing-sledges for firewood and the wheat for the grain offering - I'm giving it all." 24 But King David said to Ornan, "No; I insist on buying it from you at the full price. I refuse to take what is yours for ADONAI or offer a burnt offering that costs me nothing."

25 So David bought the place from Ornan for 600 shekels of gold by weight [fifteen pounds]. 26 Then David built an altar to ADONAI there and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings. He called on ADONAI, who answered him from heaven by fire on the altar for burnt offerings. 27 ADONAI gave an order to the angel, and he put his sword back in its sheath. 28 When David saw that ADONAI had answered him at the threshing-floor of Ornan the Y'vusi, he sacrificed there. 29 For at that time the tabernacle of ADONAI, which Moshe had made in the desert, together with the altar for burnt offerings, were in the high place at Giv'on. 30 But David could not go into its presence to consult God, because the sword of the angel of ADONAI had struck him with terror.

YOU SAID: Zechariah 8:23, why are they gone to grab the cloaks of the jews if we are wrong? We are to be the light to the nations; people know way before Yeshua came that the Jewish people had something going for them. If there is a small remnant of true Torah observant Jews - and you have someone to say you're lost. I say be real careful what you say! when I read the story of Moses and Korah, the christian are not content to blessed; they want to run the show.

THE NETZARIM RESPONSE: "Ten men will take hold of the cloak of a Jew" because Jews know the God of their patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and they keep His Torah (that is, those Jews who bother with YHWH at all today, because many if not most seem to be either secular, apathetic or at the very most, lukewarm)! YHWH never gave us a religion; He told Abraham of Himself when He chose "Avram" - who, by the way, was NOT a Jew! Please read on:

Many are under the false impression that "the Jews are God's Chosen" - but this is not completely true. Yes, the Tribe of Judah was chosen to take Torah into the world and safeguard and preserve it (Genesis 49:10, Micah 4:2); and, let's not forget YHWH caused Yeshua to be born into the Tribe of Yehudah/Judah - HOWEVER; "The Jews" has become a blanket description for all Israelites. In actuality, only someone born into the Tribe of Judah, or who has converted to Judaism, can claim they are Jews. The fact is, there were no Jews until after Jacob begat the Tribe of Yehudah (Judah - Genesis 29:35; Matthew 1:1-2). The Tanach (OT) shows that His Chosen were called Hebrews (Genesis 14:13). (See the lives of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the Tanach).

HOWEVER, if we read the Scriptures in context, we can see that EVERYONE, beginning with Cain and Abel, was Torah observant - which negates the Christian claim that they don't have to obey God's Law! ANYONE who believes in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is to be Torah observant, and God even said so FOUR TIMES IN A ROW in Numbers 15:13-16! YHWH (Yahweh) chose Abraham because He wanted to (Deut. 7:6-8) and He reiterated this in Jeremiah 31:32 by making His New Covenant with the Houses of Israel and Judah - both of whom were Torah observant.

Abraham, by the way, was not a Jew! By accepting YHWH as His God and obeying His Torah, he became a HEBREW, which means "to cross over." All his descendants were "Hebrews" - as is anyone who is "grafted in" through the blood of Yeshua!

Explaining further, Abraham was BORN A PAGAN and BECAME a Hebrew. Abraham was born in Ur of the Chaldees - Babylon. He lived as a Babylonian for 75 years, becoming "exalted father" Abram of his tribe. Later YHWH changed his name from exalted father to "AbraHAM" - father of MANY nations because all the world would be blessed through him, but not if they curse his descendants....

There is a day however at the end of Genesis 11, but before the beginning of Genesis 12 where Abram basically goes to bed a Chaldean and wakes up a Hebrew. Why? Because he heard YHWH's voice and began obeying it. To be a HEBREW - the word first occurs in Genesis 12:1 - means TO CROSS OVER. Abram "crosses over" both physically AND spiritually in his trip to Haran in obedience to YHWH's command. The obedience and the trip go hand-in-hand and forevermore he is "Abram/Abraham the HEBREW. That means anyone who comes into YHWH's instruction - or Torah, and whether they are "Jewish" or not - becomes a HEBREW.

YHWH is God and, as evidenced throughout the Torah and the entire Tanach, He constantly reached out to His "chosen" and insisted that those who had accompanied His "chosen" out of Egypt with Moshe were to do exactly as His Torah observant "chosen" did (Numbers 15:13-16). (By the way, the only covenant we ever saw Him make with a "Gentile" was in Genesis 9:8-17 where He tells Noah: "11 I will establish my covenant with you that never again will all living beings be destroyed by the waters of a flood, and there will never again be a flood to destroy the earth." ... 13 I am putting my rainbow in the cloud - it will be there as a sign of the covenant between myself and the earth." )

Jeremiah 31:31-34 talks about a New or Renewed Covenant with the houses of Israel and Judah. There is no covenant with Babylon or with the Assyrians or the Philistines or the Egyptians. YHWH says repeatedly "there is ONE Torah for Jew and for foreigner" (which means Christians need to start turning to their Hebrew roots and get rid of the paganism that has crept into Christianity!) and in Exodus 12:38-40 an EREB RAV (mixed multitude) came out of Egypt with Israel. (The Hebrew word EREB means "mixing of light and shadow" and can also mean SUNSET for that reason. Therefore these people who were redeemed were of different skin tones and races. That's the only way to express the concept in Hebrew.) The bottom line is, while Yeshua IS our Messiah, the REST of the story is Torah; and while Torah consists of YHWH's Divine Instructions in Righteousness, the REST of the story is Yeshua....

Continuing with this train of thought, JEW refers to JUDAH and there are 11 other tribes, but who is A HEBREW? Who is he who has CROSSED OVER IN OBEDIENCE TO YHWH? That means no lineage gets a pass! If a "Jew" commits adultery he is as guilty as a Gentile, but that is NOT for a Gentile to thump his chest in arrogance and assume that he can revoke that which YHWH declared can not be revoked. Such a person who does so is condemned by YHWH and no grace will touch him because his sole hope for life after death was a JEWISH HEBREW CARPENTER who said, "Until heaven and earth disappear, not the least stroke of the pen wil pass from the Torah until ALL is accomplished" Last time anyone checked, heaven and earth were still here and so is the double witness of Matthew 5:17-19 and Luke 16:17.

Y'shua haMashiyach was a Hebrew born into the Tribe of Yehudah (Judah). He had to be to inherit David's throne and fulfill Messianic promises. Again the prophets didn't talk about a Gospel being fulfilled by a Roman or a Philistine or a Babylonian. If being a HEBREW were only confined to Israel, then how do we explain the ministry of Jonah to Nineveh? How do we explain ALL RACES being judged and perishing in the flood of Noah? What about Melichzedek, Jethro and Job - all righteous and obedient servants ACCORDING TO TORAH and ALL being outside of Israel? Torah and Gospel are the same thing. Why? Because the Gospels refer back to the Torah, which is YHWH's Divine Instruction in Righteousness, wtihout which we would have NO blueprint for moral, holy living! The "New Testament" in no way replaced the "Old"; it serves to affirm Torah!

Yeshua summarized the Gospels through the Ten Commandments and Deuteronomy 6:4. His disciples like James talk about "the perfect Torah that is liberty", and Paul to Timothy says "ALL Scripture is fit for reproof" including that inconvenient "Torah of the Jews" that the Bereans themselves followed and were praised for following. Rav Shaul kept a Nazirite vow, performed circumcison at least once and fasted on Yom Kippur. He had to rush home for Shavuot (Pentecost) and kept Saturday Shabbat 84 times - just in the book of Acts alone. John defined sin as "transgression of the LAW" - Torah. And this is 30+ years after the resurrection and 15 years after the events of Acts 15....As John says, "the new commandment is the old one that you have had from the beginning" - please don't try to suggest that the Brit Chadasha is a bunch of malarkey!.

Both Jews and Christians have "missed the boat" as far as ALL the Scriptures go, and we ask that you read this article which shows how the rabbis have twisted Scripture.

You also spoke about the virgin birth and how the Hebrew doesn't mean "virgin." Please read this article for further information.

As for your question on Daniel 9:24, please read Aramaic and Hebrew scholar Andrew Gabriel Roth's explanation and Discussion on Daniel 9.

As to your comment about a "demi-god" - please read: Statement of Faith, Idol worship, and Yeshua in a Nutshell.

Yeshua was from YHWH (He was an "arm" of YHWH, Isaiah 53:1), the Suffering Servant in Isaiah 53, AND from the Tribe of Yehudah, Genesis 49:8-12. Please see: So you don't believe Yeshua was divine? and Curse of Jeconiah.

Concerning your comment about how we view Isaiah 11, please read: Dead-on prophecies, Isaiah 53 (Isaiah 11 is mentioned here) and Jewish Messiah, the criteria (mentions Isaiah 11).

YOU SAID: My one question G-d can redeem us by him alone, show one time that in the new testament Thus saith the L-rd, when it speaks of the G-d of Israel, is it saying Yeshua? Because he has said many times its not me its only G-d.

THE NETZARIM RESPONSE: Yes, God and God alone redeems. YHWH is the God of Israel. Halleluyah! In order to understand how Yeshua can be considered "God" we ask that you read the following from our "Challenging Atheism" page where we discuss exactly who God is. This is not a "slam" against the learned Rabbis; however, the Rabbis are making unfounded statements about Y'shua that reveal they have blinders on! Here's another illustration:

YHWH, our Creator, is indeed, ONE. He said so! It is futile (not to mention, blasphemy) to attempt to downplay YHWH's power in whatever form He chooses to present it. Whenever we attempt to illustrate the concept of God to the atheists who write to The Refiner's Fire, we like to compare the idea of Him to a fiber optic lamp with its myriad lights emanating from the ends of long, thin tubes. The lights appear ONLY because of the base that is powered by electricity. Without the base, there would be no light. The Entity of YHWH is the "base" with His light emanating everywhere via whatever "form" He chooses. He didn't divide Himself in half in order to present Himself as Yeshua on earth. He used the "form" of Yeshua to reveal Himself in a personal way that MAN could understand with his limited, human mindset.

Isaiah 53:1 tells us that Yeshua would be "an arm" of YHWH, and then goes on to describe His earthly form....

On a more scholarly level, the YHWH/Yeshua relationship can be explained via the Aramaic word qnoma. Qnoma is a very important term that has been greatly diluted and misunderstood over the centuries. Through an exceedingly complex linguistic chain of events this word, meaning "an occurrence of a nature" got morphed and perverted into "person" in Greek. As a result, the One Elohim (YHWH) is represented in a pagan manner in the Greek New Testament as a "person" distinct and equal with "Elohim the Son" and "Elohim the Ruach haKodesh." Instead, it is the oneness of YHWH that manifests in Mashiyach, not that Mashiyach's divinity is separate from his Father's. However, in this case we are talking about humanity and not YHWH, and both of them have "natures" that cannot be seen, and yet are a root part of their being. Or, to put it another way, a "nature" is like a body hidden behind a curtain. For those in the audience, nothing of that nature can be seen. Then, all of a sudden, a hand and part of an arm appears through the veil. While we know there is a body attached to that limb, the limb is all we see. Furthermore, that arm moves with full force, will and agreement of the mind that controls the body. For the viewers, the arm appearing out of the curtain is the qnoma (occurrence) and the hidden mind behind that limb's movement is its kyanna (nature)....

The Bible tells us YHWH is all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal, and everywhere at once. Our minds can't comprehend Him - and they won't, until we're taken out of our "earth-suits" to be present with Him. He didn't lose control of the universe while an aspect of Himself was presenting Yeshua to the world! He didn't lose control of the universe while He was guiding the Israelites via pillars of cloud and fire, or while speaking through a burning bush or a donkey, or presenting Himself in the form of "three men" at the Oaks of Mamre (Genesis 18:2). When God was physically with Adam and Eve in the Garden (Genesis 2:15-16 and 3:8-9), was He then the "lesser" God or the "greater" God? What arrogance on our parts to determine what degree of "god" YHWH is in ANY FORM!

Throughout Scripture we see over and over again that YHWH is a "One-ness" in whatever "form" He presents Himself! Examples:

Deuteronomy 4: 39 ...know today, and establish it in your heart, that ADONAI is God in heaven above and on earth below - there is no other.

Isaiah 45: 5 I am ADONAI; there is no other; besides me there is no God.

The Bible goes on to tell us that Yeshua is ONE with his Father (Philippians 2:6-11 and John 10:22-39). The Bible does NOT tell us Yeshua was "partially divine" nor does it ever mention "two Gods". Teaching that is FALSE DOCTRINE!

Isaiah 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Micah 5: 2 "But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Colossians 2: 8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.

Matthew 16:15-17: 15"But what about you?" he (Yeshua) asked. "Who do you say I am?" 16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Yeshua replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

John 10: 30 I and the Father are One, He who has seen me has seen the Father....

John 1 also tells us: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing made had being. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness not has suppressed it.

John 4:26: Then Yeshua declared, "I who speak to you am he."

John 17:1-3: After Yeshua said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: 2"Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Yeshua Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Matthew 1: 23...they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US.

John 8: 24...if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

YHWH, through His Messiah, Yeshua, performed all kinds of miracles that included raising the dead and controlling nature. Psalm 90:1 and 1 Timothy 1:17 show that YHWH did NOT have a beginning or an end. The same cannot be said for a "lesser god". YHWH will return in the "form" of Yeshua to defeat the Antichrist and then rule the world for a thousand years. Does this mean we will be following a "lesser God"? No! YHWH is doing this for US, to help us understand Him better before He brings down His "new heaven and new earth" (2 Peter 3:13, Isaiah 65:17, Isaiah 66:22, Revelation 21:1-5, Luke 18:30) where everything will be far more different than our human minds could ever comprehend! We don't know/weren't told in the Bible exactly what "form" we will be looking upon in eternity when we look upon our Creator.

Yeshua was here once and His flesh died, yet HE will be returning! What's "lesser" about that? Can a mere man die and return again to rule the world? Can a mere man walk on water, turn water into wine, control nature, or raise the dead? Jeremy 32:17 tells us YHWH is all-powerful. Psalm 147:5 and Acts 15:18 say He is "all-knowing". A "lesser" YHWH could not be "all powerful" or "all-knowing", let alone, "eternal".

1 Timothy 3: 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God (not a "greater or lesser" in any way) was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Yeshua was Divine in a human form - something only God could have made possible. But to relegate Him to a "lesser god" is simply not Biblical - not to mention, it makes things more confusing for those who are sincerely trying to understand Him. Is it any wonder that Muslims think that we worship "three gods"? If we can't stick to the BIBLICAL definition of ECHAD without inserting Gnosticism and Kaballah (which is where the "greater and lesser god" idea started), then how can we expect others to understand exactly who it is that we worship?

Furthermore, for those who want to insist that Yeshua is "just" Messiah but not divine, we challenge you to tell us what you going to do with verses such as Isaiah 9:6, John 20:28, Mark 12:32, Romans 3:30, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Galatians 3:20, Ephesians 4:6, 1 Timothy 2:5, and James 2:19!

The bottom line is: The teachers mentioned above and their ilk are suggesting "another Jesus". We are warned that there would be a plethora of false teachers in the end times!

2 Corinthians 11: 3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

Paul warns: Galatians 1 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel - 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

Yeshua is never called "our Father" in the "New Testament" (because he is NOT the Father; he is YHWH's "arm" (Isaiah 53:1) - although he is referred to as "Everlasting father" in Isaiah 9:6. In the New Covenant, Yeshua always appears beside the Father or with the Father. This does not compromise the dual truth that Yeshua is divine, having the nature, character, mission and capacity of God in every respect, and Yeshua is "God" manifested in human form; "putting a face on YHWH" for humans to look upon and identify with. Paul constantly demonstrates this principle (Romans 1:7, 2 Thessalonians 1:1, 2:16, Philemon 1:3).

There is both equality and hierarchy between Yeshua and the Father. (John 10:24, 14:28, 1 Corinthians 11:3). The subordination of a faithful messenger has a major part in the role of the Messiah and his Father.

There are unique characteristics of God which appear in Yeshua and which make Him equal to God and a part of the very nature of God and man (Phillipians 2:6-11, Hebrews 5:8, Colossians 1:19, 2:9). The "arm" reference of Isaiah 53 points this out perfectly! Yeshua is the "arm" of YHWH who reached down from heaven to speak to mankind face-to-face. His "shell" was human, but his nature was completely divine....